Race Games Idea

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Lister Farrar
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Race Games Idea

Post by Lister Farrar » Mon May 14, 2018 10:23 am

Race Games Idea

Tripleshot rides aren't races, though they have a competitive element as we push each other in training. And TripleShot also offers 4 ideal training races at the speedway as part of the VCL. The A's go at each other pretty much full on. But for B's in between? Martin asked me to look at offering a race games option in each of the b groups. The idea is to have a coach set some race scenarios, that allow riders to experience race situations, but under more controlled situations to aid learning.

Examples might be warm-ups with bunch drills like weaving through or passing between lines, then perhaps lead-outs for Tuesday sprints, or the Hare and Hounds Game (a small group being allowed away by 10 seconds and the chasers having to get organized), maybe even a red team v blue team overall game.

Depending on interest, we could do one session for each B group (1, 2, 3), which would probably be best as abilities should be similar for this to work. And could be different for each B group as interest and skills allow.

Post here if you have questions or suggestions.

Race Games days would be posted and riders given the choice to take part, or do their normal ride.

Anyone interested?
Last edited by Lister Farrar on Mon May 14, 2018 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lister
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shawn
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by shawn » Mon May 14, 2018 3:44 pm

This sounds fantastic, Lister. A nice way to support riders to move from group riding to racing. I would add that a lot of what happens at the Velodrome during the coached Monday night sessions would help build race-ready skills.

LouiseF
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by LouiseF » Mon May 14, 2018 5:23 pm

I don't mean to sound like Debbie Downer and while these sound like fun on some level, I have experienced overly structured group rides before. When I read the descriptions my mind immediately went back to group rides I experienced in another city, which may be nothing like what you are envisioning. I found them mentally fatiguing and highly annoying. Perhaps I am an adult who doesn't take direction well......

As a regular-as-I-can-be B group rider, I'd be up for this once in awhile but I'm not sure I'd want this to replace B rides as they already exist. I personally enjoy the fluidity of the B rides and evolving "race games" if you want to call them that that happen naturally during a ride. I also enjoy the social side of things which might diminish a bit with structured requirements.

Interested to see what others think.

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Rolf
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by Rolf » Mon May 14, 2018 6:43 pm

I recognize my own experiences in what Debbie Downer says. But in the past Tripleshot has temporarily done rides like those Lister proposes and they’ve been super fun and an awesome workout. Ideally these would be an exceptional, occasional treat—and they would only happen when there are enough numbers to fill out a B group doing the usual thing.

Further, as hard as it is to believe, there are actually Tripleshotters who don’t lurk on the forum all day, fervently clicking “View new posts”.

So, putting these things together: while ideas can be thrown around on the forum, I’d suggest race game rides only get concretely organized in the parking lot at 6 a.m., with designated somebodies soliciting interest and then laying out the challenge/rules. That way, people can elect whether or not to participate, and everyone starts the ride on the same page.
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JTyre
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by JTyre » Mon May 14, 2018 8:13 pm

I agree with Rolf. An onsite champion with clear predetermined rules would be a must, as would be an option for folks not into it. Intricate details would be a turnoff, but something simple like chasing a rabbit from Caddy Bay/Beach Drive Junction to King George sounds like fun (on either end).

But I hear Debbie Downer too,

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mfarnham
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by mfarnham » Tue May 15, 2018 8:28 am

The race games will be an occasional summer treat/learning opportunity for those who want to give it a try, not a new ride format replacing the usual. There are plenty of people riding these days to provide options for those who don't want to participate. Some people want to try racy stuff...others have no interest. There's room for many types in the club.

These do have to be slightly organized ahead of time if a coach is going to show up to help. All it has to be is (for example) "We're doing a B1 race games ride next Tuesday for those interested." The rest can get sorted in the parking lot the morning of with input from coach and participants.

Best,
Martin

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Alan
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by Alan » Tue May 15, 2018 10:56 am

Let's do it...

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Roland
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by Roland » Tue May 15, 2018 11:51 am

How about this game? Leave the parking lot in a group, first one to complete the entire route -- wins!
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JohnT
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by JohnT » Tue May 15, 2018 2:54 pm

I nominate Roland's contribution for the "Post of the year" award.

JT

shawn
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by shawn » Wed May 16, 2018 7:15 am

I remember when the Thursday TTT ride wasn't a thing yet. Some of the masters women wanted to put teams together to race TTT Provincials so Lister showed up at Pareto, pulled aside those of us who wanted to learn (and nudged a few needed to round out teams) and we trained together. It was occasional and optional but proved to be very successful and we still showed up for coffee!

JamesB
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by JamesB » Fri May 18, 2018 10:59 am

This sounds very interesting to me. Please count me in.
Looking forward to it!
James

FairweatherMike
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by FairweatherMike » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:18 pm

So, uh, has this happened yet? Sounds great - I vote for its inclusion in Friday rides - and with the numbers of B riders who are showing up (especially when the weather is fair) I agree with Martin's assessment that there's more than enough bodies for everyone to do their favourite type of pedaling.
Mike Skinner

mfarnham
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by mfarnham » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:06 pm

Looks like first one will be June 15 (Fri). Probably aimed at B1-level riders. Will be a separate ride from the B1 ride. Will update...

Martin

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Lister Farrar
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by Lister Farrar » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:21 pm

Here are the details of what's planned for this weeks first session of Race Games. Sorry if it's wordy; Brenna thought it should be shorter, but, as Winston Churchill once said, I didn't have time to write a short one.

Please note there are opportunities in this drill for riders at many stages. Yes, it's about attacking and chasing, which sound aggressive and for the strong. But they're also good for testing your limits at holding a faster group, saving yourself when it's a bit over your head (such as when you bridge a gap in a race), and generally find efficiencies in faster pace lines.

Hope you enjoy them!

Lister, Brenna and Matt

Session #1 Friday June 15, 5:55 am, Oak Bay High

"Breaks and Chases"

Intro:
Group rides are about sticking together, but racing is often about trying to get away, break up a group, or tire opponents so teammates can make a move later. Compared to group rides, the intensity is higher in peak moments, lower in lulls, drafting skills are challenged, and the need to organize and work with riders of varying strengths is intensified.

This drill has a small group do a simulated attack. 2-4 riders will accelerate sharply together from the back of the bunch, and organize to open a gap on the bunch. The bunch will spot them 10-30 seconds so they can practice the chase effort. The bunch has to organize a chase to pull them back using all riders who can contribute, without dropping riders. Weaker riders practice sitting on. The incentive is to stay away or catch the break, respectively.

Skills include:
1. attack with coordinated acceleration
2. drafting under pressure
3. communication
4. judging cadence, speed and effort
5. using everyone's strengths (big people on downhills, small people on hills..)
6. encouraging group partners

What to expect:
1. A maximum of 10-12 riders can be accommodated and get good practice and feedback. First come, first served. Coaches will be onsite a 5:50. Look for Brenna, Matt and Lister and meet near them.
2. Riders should be similar b1 strength, with pace line, braking and shifting skills.
3. Drill conditions are set to allow the group to work on group race skills. Being open minded helps. :)
4. Expect to learn skills vs 'get a workout', although there will be significant effort involved
5. Same route as Friday, usual safety considerations at corners and stop signs. Do not take risks.
6. See effort start (blue) and finish (red) points on this map www.plotaroute.com/route/625523. The usual Friday route but broken into segments for safety, review, reforming groups and adding a progression if necessary
7. Stop after each effort, regroup and ride to recover, stop at next start for instructions.
8. A coach will follow each group to advise and give feedback
9. Peer feedback will be key. Please respect it.
10. Efforts are more intense than regular pace line rides.
11. If you're one of the stronger riders, you will be expected to moderate your effort to work with your group
12. If you're not feeling so good, we want you to practice sitting on as soon as you need it, and working when you can. Short pulls, don't smash your pull then go off the back. Don’t give up. It always gets easier.:)
13. Pulls on the front will be shorter to compensate for higher intensity.
14. Higher cadence is recommended to help manage micro-accelerations in pace lines at higher intensity
15. Cooperation and communication are key
16. The full session will be slightly longer than usual ride with stops to review practice and what to do next.
17. Coffee after to review is strongly recommended.

Progressions:
1. If you're the strongest, take a lead role organizing and encouraging the group.
2. If you get caught, sit up and a plan b attack will go.
3. If there's a weaker part of the group, we will spot them more time when attacking, less when chasing.

Next session ideas:
1. maybe more of the same?
2. dropping back to pull a team mate back on.
3. add lead-out teams for finish
4. lead-out train before an attack (i.e. attacking when it's been hard)
5. sitting on then counter attacking
6. formalize the game: two teams, keep score who stays away who gets caught.
Lister
"We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too."
(Bob Marley)
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justineajohnson
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by justineajohnson » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:41 am

I had a great time this morning practicing race tactics with the group! Thank you Brenna, Matt and Lister!
Justine Johnson

toddhatfield
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by toddhatfield » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:00 pm

Thank you Brenna, Matt and Lister, and also kudos to the club for arranging this. Like Justine, I also had a lot of fun this morning and learned a lot. For those of you on the fence about whether to join in, I'd emphasize that there's a whole lot more to this than just preparing for a race. Even if you plan to never race, the format brought a bit of fun variation to the Friday route and helped development of skills that are useful on any group ride - coordinating on the fly, communicating through the group, heightened awareness of what's going on throughout the group, real teamwork, and some fast riding. In my opinion, the best part wasn't the racing per se, but the skills challenge that came with the task, and the feedback that came when we re-grouped. BTW, it also felt very safe. I can't wait for the next one, but would also encourage the club to offer this to other riding levels. Thanks again! Todd

rduncan
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by rduncan » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:44 pm

Super fun this morning! Would love to see more of this.

I was very impressed with how the coaches dealt wiTh the group dynamics and were able to provide such excellent on the bike instruction. Well done. I look forward to more.

I think as everyone gets more used to it there will be more cohesion and less frustration arising from having to work as a team while also learning new skills.

Great job navigating all the MAMILs you guys.
Rob Duncan

Paula
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by Paula » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:17 am

Sounds like a lot of fun!! I remember doing some race games with Lister a few years ago on Tuesday and Friday rides and they were a blast - in a painful kind of way.

It is a great idea to do the race games separately with different levels of B- groups. I look forward to when it is B3s time! And I will try and be more deligent about checking the forum so I’m not in ththe parking lot asking “what is that group over there doing? Race games?? What??”

Paula

mfarnham
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by mfarnham » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:28 am

The tentative plan for next Friday (June 22) is B2 Race Games. Similar program to yesterday, so read up the thread to see the what/when/where (show up early!). The regular B2 ride will proceed as usual. Those who want to try the Race Games will ride in a separate group with the coaches.

Martin

Louise Wallace
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Re: Race Games Idea

Post by Louise Wallace » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:54 pm

Thank's to the coaches for a fun alternative! I recommend it!

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