Group splitting?

Mostly nonsense. Also riding bicycles inappropriate for off road terrain, off road; GIFs

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When numbers suggest it, should we split into two TSCX groups?

Yes
10
71%
No
4
29%
 
Total votes: 14

JTyre
Posts: 727
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Group splitting?

Post by JTyre » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:02 am

My observation is that rides with more than 7-8 riders can become a gong show, even dangerous as we saw this morning. This is especially true given a big spread across fitness and skill levels. I propose that we start getting serious about splitting into two groups.

To my mind, the ideal situation would be for someone to post a detailed route (Strava or plotaroute) and be prepared to lead it at either a declared "A" or "B" level. After that, someone else offers to study the route and, if required, lead it at the other level. In cases where the "B" group cannot get to coffee in time, the leader of that group would be responsible for cutting the ride short and hightailing it to coffee.

For those who haven't tried it, memorizing and executing routes is a lot of fun - and where one's memory fails, someone else usually takes up the slack.

This is just a suggestion and no more.
Last edited by JTyre on Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rolf
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by Rolf » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:22 am

I can't imagine why anyone would vote against group splitting, in the right circumstances.

But the exercise is not pointless. According to the expressive theory of voting (G. Brennan and Lomasky 1993), voting can be a form of personal expression, rather than being motivated by a desire to change anything. In this way, voting can be similar to "wearing a Metallica T-shirt to a concert, or doing the wave at a sports game."

A few comments arising from this morning:
  • I posted a novel route last night. While it was open to someone to learn it well enough to effectively guide it with decent flow (ie. without having to consult a map to know where to turn), it was unreasonable to expect anyone to have done this without advance warning.
  • At fifteen, we were too large. We should have split when I was able to do the first count, which was along Doncaster by Hillside Mall. That's probably my bad. The numerous turns led to over-frequent foot-downs, making the experience at the front very "staccato". I'm sure it was also no fun at the back, chasing a huge dragon's tail.
  • I wouldn't go so far as to say the conditions were inherently dangerous. But the likelihood of "incidents" occurring, undoubtedly increases with numbers.
  • Only three people posted their intention to join me: Mashby, Ben, and Alan. On that indication, it was reasonable to assume we would have a manageable group this morning, and that nobody would need to learn my kooky map.
  • Once we discovered we were huge, we therefore didn't really have the option of spontaneously splitting and finding someone to lead the second group along the route I posted.
  • Someone else could have led a different ride; but that would have forced half the group to be flexible and accept not doing the posted ride.
So: in the case of novel routes, the best way to split is in advance based on forum posts, allowing another leader to get up to speed on the posted route. The alternative is another leader could do a different ride, either announced in advance or offered spontaneously on the spot.

Chances of two regular leaders like Ron, Geoff, and me being out together are pretty good. And occasional leaders like Alan, John, and Claire are often around, too. That's why it's important to keep growing the number of folks with capacity to lead fun, workable routes and who know enough geography, segment distances, and timing to get the group back to coffee on time. That's why Ron's ambassador's ride idea was so good. More please!

Thanks for posting, Johnny.
Last edited by Rolf on Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fozzy
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by Fozzy » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:37 pm

FML!!! This is getting as tedious as the roadie forum!

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Rolf
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by Rolf » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:00 pm

Sorry, Fozz. JT started it.

But the roadie forum these days is more like:

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JTyre
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by JTyre » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:27 pm

Come on, Foozy, this is no worse than watching paint dry.

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afcook
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Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:33 am

Re: Group splitting?

Post by afcook » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:35 pm

hey Fooster;

I just want to let you know that the highlight of my daily pathetic life is spending 10 minutes during my 6 minute lunch break, reading the tripleshot forum. I go straight to the cycle cross subsection. If this last little bit of pleasure is taken from my life I am not sure what I would do. (Insert giffy here jonny tyre)
alan cook

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Alan
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by Alan » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:32 pm

How can one not take his lunch break to mock a doc with a gif?
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Rolf
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by Rolf » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:11 pm

Another observation: we've been enjoying multiple gravel ride options on Sundays with increasing frequency and some success. I think it's been valuable to have choices as to terrain and pace. The key has been several folks mapping out and committing in advance on the forum to lead different rides. 8)

While there's obviously a limit to how many different rides we can sustain without all ending up solo, :lol: I highly encourage anyone with a yen for exploration to take up the torch and post a ride—whether on a weekday or a weekend! More leaders = Good!

Yet another observation: Alan Cook needs more time for lunch, so he can start contributing to our Gif-ery and nonsense—and not be all

Image

Dr. C.: perhaps time to cut back on patients? :idea: :oops: :lol:

Greg F
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by Greg F » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:52 pm

Rolf, doctors are busy people, man! Saving lives and such.
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They’ve got no time for gif-ery.

Lawyers are, of course, very VERY busy too...
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schouten
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by schouten » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:42 am

I offer to go on a Cross Hill Climb this Friday, That should split the group 14/1...
Ron

rduncan
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by rduncan » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:37 pm

2 if I weren’t sick Ron.
Rob Duncan

Claire
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Location: Saanich

Re: Group splitting?

Post by Claire » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:25 pm

Rolf wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:22 am

So: in the case of novel routes, the best way to split is in advance based on forum posts, allowing another leader to get up to speed on the posted route. The alternative is another leader could do a different ride, either announced in advance or offered spontaneously on the spot.

Chances of two regular leaders like Ron, Geoff, and me being out together are pretty good. And occasional leaders like Alan, John, and Claire are often around, too. That's why it's important to keep growing the number of folks with capacity to lead fun, workable routes and who know enough geography, segment distances, and timing to get the group back to coffee on time. That's why Ron's ambassador's ride idea was so good. More please!
Oh, gosh, I'm all flattered and flustered now. Yes, I'd love to lead weekday cross rides on occasion (putting trail/beach/path/road knowledge from a lifetime of running and cycling this town to the greater good = awesome!) and knowing there will be options, I think, will make it more appealing for more people to come out and have fun.

The key here will be train ourselves to post and check the forum regularly (particularly the day before the ride, with enough time to route plan/memorize) so numbers are more knowable and we can plan accordingly to maximize dirty fun for all.

Colour me extra-motivated to train my inner GPS to devise fun urban cx routes of 90 minutes+/-. :D (<-- not a gif and proud of it)

LouiseF
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by LouiseF » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:21 pm

These are all great ideas but let's remember our routes :wink: Get it? <insert silly gif of choice here>

I cannot claim to be of original TSCX DNA but I've been a pretty regular TSCXer since 2016. So I'm wondering if there is an "it depends" option for the voting poll. I remember a time when there weren't designated ride leaders who felt the pressure to spend their evenings devising routes. I think there were folks who could just wing it and sometimes there was some trading off of the lead during the ride, depending where we were at. It was pretty fluid. Heck, even I remember leading a few GH-ish portions and I think I can even lay claim to "discovering/thinking to try out" and leading an unmentionable bit that we sometimes ride. Okay, self-aggrandizement over. But I'm just trying to make the point that no one should feel intimidated about leading a ride, or a bit of a ride, or never leading a ride. It should be fun, not high pressure. Maybe the reluctance some folks might feel is due to perceived high expectations?

Sometimes two rides are a good idea, and sometimes we can all play nicely together. But please, if we do start splitting I hope we can keep that warm and fuzzy attitude that TSCX has embodied as long as I've known it and that there won't be an "elite" group. I even worry that A and B might set a precedent that doesn't become us. A fast ride is great so long as everyone still looks out for everyone else and there continues to be a welcoming attitude.

Huge thanks to those who have been consistent ride leaders and have put in the evening time to plan routes for the enjoyment of the rest of us.

JTyre
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by JTyre » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:07 pm

LouiseF wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:21 pm
But please, if we do start splitting I hope we can keep that warm and fuzzy attitude that TSCX has embodied as long as I've known it and that there won't be an "elite" group. I even worry that A and B might set a precedent that doesn't become us. A fast ride is great so long as everyone still looks out for everyone else and there continues to be a welcoming attitude.
I agree with everything you just said, Louise. Let's scrap the "A" and "B" designation and continue our habit of accommodating everyone*. I think our splitting worked nicely this morning. Smaller groups seem to keep folks in better touch and more responsible for each other**.  In my estimation, large strungout groups do not.

*Unless Alan wears his ladies mauve jersey again. In which case we drop him.
**A little anecdote. My tubeless blew out this mornings and I walked 30 minutes home with my bike on my shoulder. A few minutes home and Alan was at my door checking on me. That's a great friend and an good example of positive TS vibe!  Seeing me at the door almost fully naked, however, will never be unseen. Sorry about that Alan***.
***Unless you enjoyed what you saw, in which case go back to *.

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Alan
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by Alan » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:14 pm

It's true. Once you see Johnny Tyre in a towel, you can't unsee that!

And who knows what he's hiding under that towel...?

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Paul Chris
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Re: Group splitting?

Post by Paul Chris » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:05 am

I like the GIFs.
And I like this discussion. Because if you renegades have 2 groups, one being slower, I would do CX more often.

And I need to do CX more often...as I try to make THE CUT for the
PAISLEY REBELS HOTEL ZED TEAM.

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